Arizona Governor Jan Brewer has been receiving allot of flack the past few weeks about that state’s new legislation toughening up the laws dealing with illegal immigrants. Mexican president Pelipe Calderon has been hollering his fool head off about “racial discrimination” and has even went as far as saying that cities in Mexico are being over burdened by Mexican citizens moving back home from Arizona. Well DUH – they are your citizens so take care of them.
Under the Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony, punishable by up to two years in prison. Immigrants who are deported and attempt to re-enter can be imprisoned for 10 years. Visa violators can be sentenced to six-year terms. Mexicans who help illegal immigrants are considered criminals.
The law also says Mexico can deport foreigners who are deemed detrimental to "economic or national interests," violate Mexican law, are not "physically or mentally healthy" or lack the "necessary funds for their sustenance" and for their dependents.
"This sounds like the kind of law that a rational nation would have to protect itself against illegal immigrants — that would stop and punish the very people who are violating the law," said Rep. Steve King of Iowa, ranking Republican on the House Judiciary subcommittee on immigration, citizenship, refugees, border security and international law.
"Why would Mr. Calderon have any objections to an Arizona law that is less draconian than his own, one he has pledged to enforce?" Mr. King said.It has been estimated that there are around 450,000 illegals in Arizona alone and it is understandable that the state had to do something to bring this drain on their services to a halt. Montana has a little over 900,000 residents so that would be like looking around you and every other person you see being here illegally. Considering the skyrocketing crime and the drug gang violence border towns are experiencing we think Arizona is on the right track. The federal government has ignored their pleas for years and they were finally pushed into a corner where something had to be done. Seper went on to report that of the estimated one-million illegals that enter the United States each year over half of them come through Arizona. Why has our federal government been ignoring this problem which has been escalating for decades? Could it be that our representatives from both political parties are more concerned with their own reelection than they are in the economic welfare of our country?
Now 16 Mexican Nationals are suing Arizona Rancher Roger Barnett who they claim violated their civil rights by holding them at gunpoint when he caught them trespassing on his land as they were illegally making their way into the United States through his private property. The immigrants are represented by the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund (MALDEF) http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/09/16-illegals-sue-arizona-rancher/
Where will this travesty end?
To get a real picture of why the objection over enforcing the law you have to realize illegal's vote democrat. As proved in the Loretta Sanchez election in California.The immigrants of old that came here for the American dream were conservative and wanted to work. The new group are here for the handouts.
ReplyDeleteIt's about time someone did something about all these illegal people that are using our resources for free.
ReplyDeleteJust watch and you will see them try for amnesty again. How does that make sense when you continue to look the other way as a million people a year illegally cross the border? But like Joe says, that is a million votes for the liberals and the Obama administration
If you two really beleive that the immigration issue revolves around Democratic politics and potential voters you really are living in a fantasy land.
ReplyDeleteIf that were indeed true then perhaps you can explain why this situation has worsened under EVERY administration, Democratic or Republican?
It is, first and foremost, an economic issue.
As to the title of this thread, who cares what they do regarding illegals in Mexico? This is an American problem. Can you say "straw man"?
The mexicans have been buttering our bread for years.try to send a white man out to pick strawberries for minimum wage it won't happen,so now we will raise the wage to 20.00 per hour,now we may get a few whites in the fields but then us consumers will pay $20.00 a lb for strawberries.The problem is our government letting illegals sign up for all these free programs without so much as a social security number.
ReplyDeleteDoes Mexico have a problem with illegal immigration?? It is funny to me that everything seems to boil down to politics with you right wingers. Arent you the religious, Godly group?? Ha..I think not. There is a reason that Mexicans want to come to the US and I don't think it is for handouts, maybe in some cases, but I think it has more to do with making money. You see, the Mexicans come here and work for very little, but compared to what they made in Mexico it is like winning the lotto. They can make anywhere from $2 to $5 or more here where as they can make $48 per month in Mexico. Their children can go to school, they can see a doctor, etc. Lets say we here in MT were living in those conditions and could have a better life in Canada, who wouldn't go. I am not saying it is right they sneak into our country, but I can certainly understand why and feel some compasion for my fellow man. Many illegals use fake social security cards as well and therefore they are paying into our system. SurelyJest has it right...this is no new problem and if you Repubs were as perfect as you would of liked to think, you had plenty of time to fix it in the last 20 years as you have held the majority for the majority of that time. Funny now it is just the Democrats just trying to get more votes...LOL...REMOVE your heads...
ReplyDeleteThey receive more than minimum wage and I just recently read a story where the INS raided a fish processing facility and the illegals were getting paid around $20 an hour for gutting fish. Underage workers are also ignored. $20 for strawberries would be cheap compared to what we are paying now
ReplyDeleteWe pay for free schooling for illegals which can cost 8 to 10 thousand per year per student. We also pay for free lunch and breakfast at those schools. The overcrowding in schools already hard pressed to exist on their budgets cause the quality of education to decrease for those that do pay and contribute to our economy. We provide free medical care. I have read many storys of medical facilities actually having to close and file for bankruptcy because they are forced by our government regulations to provide for care to illegals that never pay their bills. This results in higher insurance and medical costs to the rest of us.
We also pay for increased police and prison budgets because of the crime element that comes with the illegals. It is estimated that over 100,000 of these illegals live in garages and storage facilities in Arizona and they take any money they earn and ship it back home to Mexico. An American worker would be circulating that money in the US. Now on top of all this we have government funded do-gooders groups like the ACLU plugging up the courts with suits dealing with the rights of illegals. As non-citizens they should have no rights for breaking the law
This is not a one party problem as both republicans and democrats have contributed to this mess
I would gladly pay $20 for strawberries if I wasn’t paying for all these other costs that illegals leach out of society.
JImbo said: "Now on top of all this we have government funded do-gooders groups like the ACLU"
ReplyDeleteThe ACLU is not government funded.
Also, I love your "do-gooder" line. I disagree with a great many actions of the ACLU but we are a stronger nation because of the ACLU. Are you at all familiar with the purpose of the ACLU?
Jimbo...all I can say is that I believe you are slightly mis informed. You have some good points, and I will work on getting you solid sources, but I can't today...have to get off my puter and go somewhere, but it is my understanding that crime in AZ is at a 20yr low, so immigrants are NOT the primary cause of crime, nor is there a crime increase due to illegals. Not many, if any are making $20 per hour and I would guess that if they were they are certainly using fake ss #'s and are paying taxes. Most are doing shit work for shit wages. At any rate, these are still people and like I said before....I get why they want to flee Mexico and live here. So I will gladly pay my taxes if it is going to help any human beings...you would rather pay more for material things to get rid of them? Hmmmm...I just find that interesting. I get that people are mad...sort of, but it always falls back to the fact that these are other human beings? Also, why do you think they are sending money back to their families...sheesh, what heartless bastards, sending money back to their impovrished families.
ReplyDeleteDon't we have local issues to worry about? Why dont we just stop spending so much money on this border? Everyone is complaining about having to pay more taxes because of illegals. Well dont pay them then. Its unconstitutional anyway. We shouldnt be paying taxes. Isnt that why we came over here? If you want to complain about taxes complain about prison systems and states with manditory minimum sentences. Or how about sugar tax or cardboard tax? Land of the free. Give us your sick and poor. Ring a bell?
ReplyDeleteAnyone who agrees with the new Arizona law is out of their mind. Requiring anyone to walk around with their "papers" is a practice that violates the rights of human beings. There are much better ways of securing our boarders from illegal immigrants. This law not only effects the illegal immigrants but puts a burden upon legal citizens. This law will cause racial profiling which will lead to a much stronger police state. This country is becoming no better than Germany in 1939....
ReplyDeleteShawnsretroworks said (in regard to taxes) "Its unconstitutional anyway".
ReplyDeleteReally? Perhaps you can provide a cite for that.
Revolución Mexicana! With a population of 111,211,789 people and the ability to produce their own food, petroleum, to manufacture goods, promote tourism and a myriad of other things, there is no reason Mexico can not and should not be a contributor to the global economy. The problem is corrupt government, corrupt outside influence, and a place for Mexicans to go for refuge and a better life (USA). This negates the need to revolt, change their country and improve their lifestyle. Until the US says enough is enough, they will continue to flood into our country creating the problems that enrage so many of us.
ReplyDelete"Give me your TIRED, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free"... this is a portion of a poem written by Emma Lazarus located on the base of the Statue of Liberty. A statue that would greet immigrants as they came to the USA and were LEGALLY processed at Ellis Island.
ReplyDeleteAccording to Article I, Section 9 of the Constitution, "No capitation or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration..." income tax isnt in proportion to the census and therefore it is unconstitutional. I can go on surelyyoujest but instead how about you read the constitution yourself and stop questioning me? Silly! Thats why we came here. Just remember we are all immigrants. This is stolen land. Who are we to say who can stay here?
ReplyDeleteShawn, it is not stolen land, it is conquered land. Big difference!
ReplyDeleteAaron, walking around with papers is no different than being required to have a passport when we visit a foreign country
Red, crime certainly IS NOT at a 20 year low
Shawn - I had no idea you were a constitutional scholar. Perhaps you should alert folks to your discovery and everyone can stop paying taxes.
ReplyDeleteWhat's that? Your theory has been offered in a variety of court cases in a variety of jurisdictions and has failed to hold water?
Oh really? How about both sides have failed to hold water! Show me the law that says you must pay the IRS money! They cant even do that! They have failed to do so for years.Tax avoidence is a legal way to not pay taxes. Bug someone else you twit! Ron Paul for Pres!
ReplyDeletePretty sure this was about Mexicans coming to the u.s. there Surelyjest. How about letting people have opinions of their own? How bout we just give them California back? Haha but then who sets the president in pot laws?
ReplyDeletePlease excuse my awful grammar and spelling. My fingers work faster than my simple mind. haha
ReplyDeleteShawn has a good point. Feel free to contact the IRS yourself. Apparently if you ask them where it says you are required to pay an income tax they cannot provide an answer. Seems kinda weird right?
ReplyDelete@rat: Yes, you do need a passport, but when you go to another country you are only asked to present this at the time of crossing in most cases. My point is that giving this power to the police will cause racial profiling. This will cause a HUGE burden upon US citizens that are legally here. If you want to protect the borders then why not end the unjust wars in the middle east and have our troops do something worth while: Protect our borders and DEFEND our country. This was the original idea for a US Army. Not to take over the world.
@Shawn- Good to see fellow Ron Paul supporter!
Aaron... seriously? Do you throw a fit when you're asked for your "papers" to board a plane, when you write a check? It's no different! Puh-lease people. Why is inforcing our LAW a bad thing? Phoenix,Arizona, BTW red, has the largest kidnapping rate in the nation(ABC News, February 11th, 2009, headline: "Kidnapping Capital of the USA"), does that count for 20 year crime low? And aren't we a 9-10% unemployment? Perhaps we could solve some of this with these so called "undesirable" jobs? People can come to our country with open arms, LEGALLY, just like my ancestors and your ancestors did. And Shawn.. I am a citizen, not an immigrant.
ReplyDeleteshawn said: " Bug someone else you twit!"
ReplyDeleteUh Shawn, you realize this is a discussion blog right? LOL
and
"How about letting people have opinions of their own?"
Have I somehow suggested that you don't have a right to your opinion?
Grow a pair already.
It is interesting that an illegal in Mexico gets jail time and one in the U.S. gets handouts and a slap on the wrist if caught
ReplyDeletefed up...I have never applied for government assistance so I don't know the process, but I wasn't aware you didn't need a SS card or ID? Obviously you have experience, maybe you could enlighten me?
ReplyDeleteRat attacker and Sink this...here is some interesting info
While combating the soaring crime rates caused by illegal immigrants has been the main rationale for passing SB 1070, a closer examination of state crime statistics shows that these rates have been severally overstated by supporters of the immigration law. In fact, Arizona currently is experiencing the lowest crime rates it has seen in the last four decades.
According to the FBI, the number of violent crimes reported in Arizona between 2005 and 2008 dropped by almost 1500 while the number of reported property crimes during the same time period decreased by 8000.
Data compiled by the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) show that the violent crime rates in Arizona from 2006-2008 are the lowest they have been since 1983. In 1998, the rate of violent crime was 577.9 per 100,000. However, according to the Department of Homeland Security, by 2008, this rate had dropped to 477 per 100,000 - despite the fact that Arizona's illegal immigrant population had increased by 70% during this same time.
Article provided by Beresky & Fish, P.C.
Visit us at www.bereskyandfish.com
Rat and Sink...if you can't see the difference in walking down the street and being asked for your "papers" and boarding a plane or writing a check, then your blinded by something.
And you all do realize that our countries are ATTACHED dont you. There is no majical wall or wizard with a wand that can zap these people when they dare enter "our" country. I don't hear any logical suggestions that won't bankrupt our already bankrupt country on how to prevent these people from coming onto "our" property. So do any of you know-it-alls have any reasonably priced, civilized suggestions.....
Shawn...Surelyjest has a point, nobody is saying you can't have your opinion, but we are allowed to question you and state ours. You don't have to reply to anyone. And this stupid idea you have that you are not contitutionally obligated to pay taxes, well...is stupid! But good luck with that... I bet your arent whining about taxes when your house burns down and the fire dept comes to help you, or when your in need of the police dept. Shoot.. I bet if you even went to one of those damn public schools, and I'm sure you drive on some of those unconstitutional highways we have. Where in the constitution does it say the Gov is responsible for upkeep of 5th Ave? Huh?
ReplyDeleteSo do any of you know-it-alls have any reasonably priced, civilized suggestions.....
ReplyDeleteWell, I certainly don't know it all but I would suggest that any meaningful effort to halt illegal immigration needs to start on the other side of the border.
The only way that Mexico is going to make a concerted effort is, IMO, as a result of economic, political, and social pressure directly on the government of Mexico by the USA. I'm talking about real ramifications, not flowery threats with no real meaning.
To RED: I have never applied for gov assistance in my life,i've worked since i was 12 years old and i've worked very hard.Unfortunately I've had family members who have needed government help so i do know something about it.OBVIOUSLY you and your family have been born with silver spoons in your mouths.
ReplyDeleteI never said that i dont contribute or that i dont pay my taxes. Red. My house also has burned down and our great fire department took 25 minutes to get 5 blocks to my house. Thank you for the painfull reminder of all the money i waste. I pay property taxes and i live on one of the worst roads in havre. So yea i feel like i have been bent over. So the upkeep of 5th ave is great and all but i live on the east end. Drive down my street a few times and tell me where my money goes.
ReplyDeleteSo Ratattacker isnt that a nice way to say we stole the land? If i were to come to your house punch you in the face and kick you out of your house i have then conquered your land? Is that what you would tell the police? You wouldnt say i broke in and stole your property? Strange
ReplyDeletefed up...exactly how is it obvious that I grew up with a silver spoon?? LOL...don't I wish...I am an east end kid...grew up there along with a lot of other poor kids/families. 1st to graduate from college...Go Lights...but have never had to seek out public assistance, sorry, it just sounded like you knew about some scam where you could get govt assistance without proper ID??
ReplyDeleteShawn...so your bitter that your house burned down and your blaming the HFire Dept? And you have pot holes on your road...who doesn't..welcome to the REAL WORLD. You still utilize many govt funded services I am sure and you shouldn't whine about taxes while utilizing these things.
ok red, you're right... and thanks for reminding me our countries are ATTACHED. Must've skipped that section in geography. And who is going to be roaming the street asking for papers in Arizona? I didn't hear that anywhere but from state-run media types who's templates are identical no matter what channel you watch.
ReplyDeleteNow about the border... my brother (proudly) serves in the Army National Guard. He spent 2 weeks 2 years ago on the US/Mexican border and it was frustrating and maddening for him. He would stand watch on the border and WATCH illegals march into the US. All he was allowed to do was report it to border patrol. That is all. He did not have authority to stop any one from entering. One night he counted over 30 in one hour. The border patrol is under staffed and no one got there in time to apprehend anyone. Perhaps our king-leader President, rather than throwing money at useless bailouts, could "bail out" our border security? Bulk 'em up!! Give our military authority to make arrests! I am happy to have my taxes go towards that (national security, military..) than towards ANYONE in Washington. Now it may sound easier on paper, but it's an idea. You have one, red?
I didnt blame the Havre fire department Red. Im just saying they did a crap job after the fact. My dumb room mate started the fire. And many of the roads in Havre have pot holes but not as bad as this side of town. If your truley an east end kid you know that. So that whole use of the fire dept and great city roads you were talkin about went right out the window huh? And as far as the police dept. I would NEVER call them. Worthless! Handpicked Nazi soldiers. Stan should be cheif still. Not that drunk Nystrom. Whats with all the drunks running the town anyway? THis town has always had a really bad drinking problem.
ReplyDeleteSo...Red and all who disagree with this AZ law...Are you ok with the fact that we have Illegal immigrants in our Country?? What is wrong with protecting our borders and the citizens who live along those Borders. It is a fact that the crime rates along those border towns are some of the highest in the nation. I do believe that we have immigration laws in this country that allow people to become citizens legally and with all rights of you and I. I also beleive we have a work visa policy in this county that allows individuals to come in this country and work for a specified period of time then they need to leave our country but can come back after recieving another visa. This allows them to come into our country work...get paid...and return home. It does not allow for them to apply for our public aid or educate their children or allow them free medical care. I pay my fair share of taxes and am happy to do so. I am even mostly supportive of the social programs that run amuck in this Country. What I am unhappy about is when my taxes go to support illegal immigrants who are on our public assistance programs and are subsidised through the medicaid program that was put in place for U.S. citzens.
ReplyDeleteI am all for mexicans coming to this country and doing the work that cannot be filled by our own citizens if that is the case. Just do it legally please, either through citizenship or work visa. If you are here illegally then it is my preference to escort you back to the border from which you came and send you back across.
What is wrong with this country that we cannot get a handle on our borders. We can invade Iraq with thousands of troops and bring that coutry to a virtual stand still but we cannot keep unarmed and weak (from walking miles and miles through the desert) Mexicans from entering our Country???? Give me a break!!!
Well Sink and Mr/Mrs Thumper...I am really just trying to make a point about our border. Immigrants coming from Mexico is our major problem, because all they have to do is walk on over. Listen, if you or I lived in a corrupt, extremely poor country where it is extrememly hard to make enough money to take care of your families and all we had to do is walk a few hours north to seek out a better life, who amongst us wouldn't do it?? And sink, you might be interested in this little tid bit:
ReplyDeleteThe number of deportations each year more than tripled during the Bush era -- and has kept going up since then. During fiscal year 2009, the first full fiscal year of Obama's presidency, 387,790 immigrants were deported -- almost 100,000 more during the last full fiscal year of the Bush presidency,
So maybe you should stop being such a synic/ass about Obama and realize he is doing the work. He isn't perfect, but no President/person is and no President has or will be able to please everyone. Glad to hear you are happy to have your taxes go toward the military, cuz boy howdy..they are, to the tune of 700 Billion per year, including 12 Billion per month to go toward these seemingly endless invasions, that do nothing but piss off every middle aged crazed radical Muslim in the middle east and around the world.
I agree with the previous posters who say the problem is Mexico and until they address their economic failures, there isn't really anything we can do.
Shawn, when I asked about you utilizing the fire dept, it was sort of retorical, but it doesn't surprise me to read that you are one of those that complains about the help you received from the fire department. I have a hard time believing they took 25 min to get 5 blocks, but it is your story?? And it also doesn't surprise me to see you be one of the a$$'s on here who like to hide behind your pen name to make allegations and personal attacks on people BY NAME. Handpicked Nazis...you sound like a jerk....and I should remind you that Karma is a bitch.
IdiotT...I don't really have a huge issue with illegal immigrants...sorry. I pay my fare share of taxes as well, and would rather put my money toward the betterment of other human beings than toward the destruction of them..ie Iraq/Afghanistan. I bet if we were able to vote/decide on where our tax dollars would go, we wouldn't be invading any other foreign countries. Yes we might be attacked again, but as we saw a couple of weeks ago, that very likely will happen again anyway. It is a fact that crime rates along those border towns are some of the highest in the nation...really...where is your source for that "fact"? I understand that this country is by no means mine. I am one of billions of human beings on this planet, who the hell am I to say this is mine? We have laws and I believe people should follow those, but I certainly can understand why these Mexicans want to come here....I am a human being and therefore I understand human feelings. I don't understand why some of you are having such a hard time grasping "why" we have this problem...seems fairly obvious to me. Two countries who share common land...one country extremely impovrished, the other not so much....ummmm where would you go to give your children a better life?
Good points red; I appreciate your perspective. I just really have to disagree with you. I believe I mentioned people "walking across our borders" in my last post, so we agree on that. I also can understand them coming here to better their lives. I can also agree that towards the end of Bush's presidency, he kinda checked out. But please don't mock the military and what they are doing for us in the middle east... if they weren't there, who knows what that part of the world would look like (and I have 2 family members who can personally atest to that!). It's been fun exchanging back and forth with you, red... you are a very intellectual person. Thanks!
ReplyDeletewe may as well agree to disagree. This is going nowhere. These "attacks" you speak of are on public figures not private citizens, and with the current events and election i have chosen to speak my mind. I have been a little harsh and for that i am sorry but my feelings are strong. It does seem though that we do agree on some things ie. afganistan/iraq. Settle down Red. Its just the internet and im just some a$$ that doesnt matter.Peace
ReplyDeleteSounds good guys....good chat!!
ReplyDeleteJust a couple points:
ReplyDeleteTaxes and government are not necessary for things such as fire departments, police forces, roads. There are alternative ways to take care of such things. I can provide plenty of research if you care more to hear about that.
@red I'm sorry but have you ever been confronted by someone on our police force? I mean I personally would say Nazi is a pretty nice term for some of the crap myself and many others have put up with. Luckily I always have my camera on me and know my rights.
And finally. you said you don't hear logical suggestions, my last post i suggested we use our troops for something useful such as border security. Think of the money this country could save! It's all so simple, too bad we are all stuck following the government to the slaughter house like a bunch of sheep...