Wednesday, August 25, 2010

Havre Drug Dealers Moonlight as State Employees

It was disheartening to hear of the drug related arrests of two people entrusted with overseeing and working with Havre youth. Lanie Fitzpatrick and her sister Melissa were arrested last Thursday around 7pm in the evening and were charged with numerous felony drug charges. Lanie is employed by the Child and Family Services which is overseen by the Department of Public Health and Human Services (DPHS) which coincidently is the same DPHS that oversees medical marijuana grow operations. Melissa is employed as a juvenile probation officer. Now isn’t this a kick in the pants to those parents that have had dealings with these two through our local court system. The very people you are supposed to trust to help with youth in need of assistance are they themselves breaking the very same laws that brought many of their caseload people to their door in the first place. Could there be a better way of gaining new “clients” than having a list of every troubled youth in Hill County that has had brushes with the law over drug use? Would this also violate the confidentiality provision of the medical marijuana laws? What about the intimate personal knowledge of their clients because of the Fitzpatrick’s employment? This is a better set-up than using an e-mail spam list to obtain customers.

Furthermore, the arrest took place at one of their grow operations in the 900 block of third street less than one block from an elementary school and ironically less than one block from Dustin Malley’s grow operation that we have reported on previously. One of the witnesses to the arrest said that Drug Task Force agent Pete Federspiel spent upwards of three and one-half hours searching through the operation after the two criminals were hauled off to the jail. It does seem a little odd considering the charges that these two were able to be released on their own recognizance not even 24 hours after their initial arrest. Do other drug felons get this same consideration?

While operating a medical marijuana facility is legal under Montana law it would seem that this is yet another example of countless operations that have no regard for the limits currently in place under Montana law. The search revealed records showing the Fitzpatricks were keeping 7 to 10 pounds of marijuana on hand each week which is well over the legal limit. The Fitzpatricks were nabbed selling quantities of marijuana that were over 4 times the legal limit, they routinely bought pot from illegal sources to supplement the shortfalls in production at their operation, and they were selling their product on the street as common drug dealers rather than the “professional caregivers” they were claiming to be. It was also reported in the Havre Daily News that the Task Force agents seized over $27,000 in cash during the bust. Not a bad weeks extra income for two 30 something young ladies. While the Task force did search their second operation in the vicinity of the Havre Skate Park it has been reported to the Corrector that the agents left the plants that these two were legally allowed under current Montana law.

It would seem to us that there are many problems that need to be rectified with the current medical marijuana laws. First, both of these operations are in locations where young children congregate. Second, is it really appropriate that state employees that work with youth are even allowed to obtain a grow license and still maintain their State of Montana employment? Do the parents of the youth served by these two now have grounds for a liability suit against the State of Montana and you the taxpayer? Do any of our readers actually think any income tax was being paid on the sale of this marijuana? Most legitimate businesses deposit their receipts daily and keep records for the IRS.

The Fitzpatricks were reportedly operating under the name of Ganja Gardens which when searched on Google reveals a state wide network of linked operations throughout Montana. We would like to know if this operation was registered with the City of Havre as was required as per the moratorium.

Lastly, this arrest took place on Thursday yet nothing was reported in the HDN until the next Tuesday. Why was that? We received a report from one of our tipsters on Monday wondering why this didn’t make the news but since we have been berated heavily on this blog for “not knowing all the facts” we held up the post to try and verify some of the information. We would like to publically apologize to our tipster for just not running with their information right away. We are dammed if we do and dammed if we don’t.

Here is a related article from the HDN.

Article from the GF Tribune here


  1. Holy cow! Where to start?

    Lanie is employed by the Child and Family Services which is overseen by the Department of Public Health and Human Services (DPHS) which coincidently is the same DPHS that oversees medical marijuana grow operations.

    Same agency, completely different department.

    The very people you are supposed to trust to help with youth in need of assistance are they themselves breaking the very same laws that brought many of their caseload people to their door in the first place.

    Has there been any indication that they were neglectful in their jobs (other than your implication?).

    Would this also violate the confidentiality provision of the medical marijuana laws?

    I fail to see how but perhaps I'm missing something. Perhaps you could expound.

    It would seem to us that there are many problems that need to be rectified with the current medical marijuana laws.


    Second, is it really appropriate that state employees that work with youth are even allowed to obtain a grow license and still maintain their State of Montana employment?

    Why wouldn't it be? Or perhaps more importantly, why shouldn't it be?

    Do the parents of the youth served by these two now have grounds for a liability suit against the State of Montana and you the taxpayer?

    For what? What damages have they suffered and what violations are you suggesting have occured?

  2. Surely

    Obviously you can tell from the post my opinion. I would really like to hear is what everyone else's personal opinion of this drug bust

    Is it just a "witch hunt" as Jeremy Yellin claims in today's Tribune?

  3. I feel bad for those that are following the law. i know for a fact that Dustin Malley operates 100 percent under the law. The task force and police are invited into his home on a regular basis. And yes he pays taxes! He is in NO WAY accociated with those girls. These Fitzpatrick girls are screwing it up for everyone else. Not fair.

  4. Obviously you can tell from the post my opinion.

    Yes I can.

    However, I am asking direct questions about your statements, not your opinions. Perhaps you would be so kind as to respond to those.

  5. Do you have an opinion Surely??? Or you just like attacking the corrector? No corrector other Drug Felonies are not treated as this one was. Im living proof. I was charged with a felony that was less of a big deal than the Fitzpatricks Distribution and I sat 4 days then had to post 25 thousand dollar bond!! They sat less than 24 hours and had to post no bond. Why the special treatment??

  6. This makes me want to cry in depair for all the families that have had to work with these two people, trusting that they had the strength of character to advise them about there children's wellbeing. Wake up people we are going to lose a whole generation of people to a new addiction. Pot is everywhere and available free to most who want it and all the people who have cards are sharing it with friends all the time. They have to keep it a cash business because it is against Federal law to deposit drug money in the bank, so to think we can tax it is absurd, it will never happen. the only positive thing that can possibly happen from all of this it to overturn the law. The new revisions that our legislative committee came up with are another joke, and our Speaker of the House should be really proud of emmersing himself in this culture.Please get involved to repeal this law, it will be devasting to our way of life if we don't. Dustin Malley may be doing everything on the straight and narrow, but he still has to look at those children he is raising in that environment and justify to them how he is encouraging, and enabling addiction. For the those of you who work so hard at law enforcement, probation, and Health and Human Services keep up the good work and for pete's sake don't let this type of person work with children. We are still a nation that knows right from wrong and this is soooooooo wrong. Thank-you Drug Task force for doing your job, and keep wotking we need you more now than ever.

  7. A few points:

    "Criminals hauled off to jail"???

    They are SUSPECTS until convicted of a crime. Surely even conservatives such as the Corrector believe in the Constitution?

    As to the Fitzpatricks being OR released; Bond/bail is intended not as punishment prior to trial/conviction, but to ensure appearance at court and prevent flight from prosecution.

    Were the Fitzpatricks shown special consideration? The facts are that they are state employees well known by the legal community, including the County Attorney. They are regularly employed property owners with significant ties to the community; therefore they are not likely to be considered a flight risk.

    It IS true that many people sit at the Detention Center awaiting release because they cannot afford to post bond; I think we should argue not that the Fitzpatricks should have been held or bond required, but rather that our judges and prosecutors should more regularly allow OR release to the many deserving suspects to whom it is presently denied.

    As a community we ALL pay to keep people incarcerated pending trial, something that should be reserved for only the suspects at highest risk of flight and/or re-offending pending trial. Innocent until proven guilty should not mean losing one's job, home, and possibly family while one lingers in jail pending the slow grind of the wheels of justice.

    As to the Medical Marijuana laws and whether the Fitzpatricks are victims of a 'witch hunt'; only time will tell all the facts of this case, but at first blush it seems evidence is substantial that they were in violation of the parameters set for caregivers under the statute.

    If indeed these women have subverted the intent of the law, then they have harmed every legitimate patient in Hill County who needs and deserves access to medical marijuana as voted by the people of Montana.

    Let's hope our County Attorney's Office and our Courts will have the wisdom to see the difference, and to fairly assess these issues on a case by case basis.

  8. Nancy-

    One could certainly make the point that much of this problem comes from the misinformation and disinformation that is promoted by the AA faith and the recovery industry cartel.

    The problem comes from the fact that the 17 billion dollar recovery industry considers itself unquestionable, even though it has no oversight, and statistcally is a complete failure, with a mortality rate roughly equal to the Bataan Death March.

    There are very real problems with the disaster that is called substance abuse treatment in this country. Addiction is a behavior, it is NOT a disease, even though the AA faith lobbied heavily for alleged "credible" organizations to consider the behavior a "disease"

    This was extended by the Hughes Act of 1970, heavily lobbied by front organizations of corporate AA (NAADAC, the National Council on Alcoholism,ASAM, and the Hazelden Foundation)that required health insurance companies to pay for "treatment". This is how the 17 billion dollar industry, complete with weekly informercials for the industry such as A&E Intervention and TLC Addicted, came to be.

    One shoould remember that most of this industry is unregulated, and promotes dogma that has a tendency to kill people. 97% of for profit US rehabs use 12 step methodology, which is condoned and encouraged by corporate AA (GSO and AAWS) in direct violation of their stated traditions.

    One should always remember that American health care has NO interest in ever curing anyone, they only want to "treat" people, and how better than to concoct an alleged "progressive, terminal, and incurable disease" that is cheap to treat and requires a lifetime of billable treatment.

    People should also remember that when prohibition ended, all violence involving the black market end of the business ceased.

    The entire problem of this issue is directly related to the misinformation that is promoted by the AA faith and its incestous and deceptive alliance with the recovery industry cartel.

    It is unfortunate that this industry is given ANY credibility, because it has none.

    Anyone with an addiction issue should spend some time at the orange papers.

  9. Nancy your something special!! Adiction?? Not addictive smart one!! Free pot??? What are you talking about?? There is no FREE pot!! Wow! Think before you speak! They have already tried to overturn the law. Ask the local Gun dealer Rip Steckel whos group FAILED to aquire the signatures needed to do so. The people have spoken!! They want pot! New addiction Nancy?? New?? Are you serious? Its been around for thousands of years. Why dont you spend your time fighting alcohol which is a real addiction and problem that kills over 100 thousand a year. Marijuana has NEVER killed anyone!!

  10. Do you have an opinion Surely???

    Absolutely. If they are guilty, throw the book at them. Both as a punishment for them and a signal to the community.

    Or you just like attacking the corrector?

    LOL - Attacking? Are you serious? Straightforward questions in response to another's postings are attacks now?

    Who knew you were such a sensitive soul.

    Think before you speak!

    Perhaps you should take your own advice.

  11. I also believe denial is a disease of character. You make the assumption that I just fell off the turnip truck. I have lived with addiction, and yes I personally have experienced that pot is highly addictive, so is food, gambling, drinking etc. in some instances. It is not a new addiction and has been around for a long time but for many it is becoming a new addiction. And yes it is being shared, and given to people at no expense because of the amount they are permitted to purchase. Do you really believe that patients aren't provided with a little extra once in awhile. If you could go to the bar and drink at no expense, or at little expense or go to the magic diamond for free don't you suppose the frequency to participate in those activities would increase. It's my opinion based on my personal experiences, just as you are entitled to your opinion based on what your experiences in life have done to you. I hope and pray for healthly populations that don't turn to any type of substance to replace their broken lives. We need to encourage education and prevention. There is nothing attractive about walking around town smelling like a skunk, or having your children exposed to the smoke from pot. And yes I do smell you in the line at the grocery store as you've smoked your joint on the way to Wally World. The fact that these two people even applied to be caregivers is the crime in itself, and I don't need a bunch of attorney BS to make that call.

  12. and yes I personally have experienced that pot is highly addictive,..

    Mentally, perhaps. Physically, no.

    The fact that these two people even applied to be caregivers is the crime in itself,

    Why? That makes no sense that I can see.

  13. I am just in awe that there is anyone that can come to bat for these two

    Will you people jump to defend every liberal, crazy person, or now even a couple of criminals that some of our young people looked up to?

    WOW - We are in serious trouble in this USA

  14. Freddy - who, exactly, is defending anyone?

  15. Smelled me in the line Nancy? I dont smoke while driving. Its ILLEGAL!! Noone is giving out free pot Nancy. If they are please tell me who because im paying 200 an ounce. Which by the way is the cheapest i have heard. Ever! Surely is right. Not addictive. Maybe mentally for weak willed and minded people. Nancy you sound just like that crazy Kaftan lady that stands up at the town meetings and spews B.S at everyone about addiction and whatever other lies she can think of. If youve dealt with addiction then it wasnt marijuana. Please tell me. Am i better off taking harmless pot? Or should i go get Oxi Contin to combat my skeletal and muscular problems? Sorry but i would rather be stoned than addicted to pain killers!

  16. I see no where in either article where they were charged with anything.

    They were arrested under suspicion and then released under suspicion. It looks like an investigation is still in progress and that charges could be brought against them.

    Therefore, why should they sit in jail if they have not been charged with any crimes and no warrants for arrest have been issued?

    Further, just because they work for the state and are employed in departments that work with juveniles does not mean that they will sell drugs to youth.

    Has every teacher, daycare provider, janitor at a school, licensed instructor, coach, etc., to make sure they aren't carrying cards. Don't want them selling to our youth...

  17. They were charged Dandelion. Call and ask. Public information. I agree though that just because they worked with kids doesnt mean they sell drugs to kids. There jobs aside, they made illegal purchases and sales. They took something good and made it look bad with their greed and illegal activities. Doesnt look good on those of us who follow the law. What a shame.

  18. Dandelion--they are not in jail, they were released on their own recognisanse.

    For all the rest of you, it is amazing to me that you defend this. I realize it may not be illegal now, but that does not mean it shouldn't be.

    There are laws all over the books, Federal, State and Local regulating conflicts of interest. This is a major conflict of interest.

    Conflict of Interest: n., pl., A conflict between a person's private interests and public obligations.

    Is this not a conflict? In my business I have to sign dozens and dozens of disclosures of the people I do business with so there is not even the perception of a conflict. If I sell anything other than or do business with anyone I sell a particular product to I can lose my license.

    Governmental officials are required to disclose conflicts even conceptual when they run for office.

    I can go on and on with examples.

    If these two gals want to sell marijuana out of their homes and then go to work for the State of Montana and potentially put others in jail for a probation violation or take their kids away for abusing the very drug they sell, that by definition is a conflict folks, plain and simple.

    I think government employees should be required to disclose their involvement in medical marijuana businesses if regulation of it falls within their work enviornment.

  19. Denial is a disease of character. Well said retro, I think your post makes my point perfectly. By the way my experience is with pot, and yes it is very addictive. I was taught in science class that the mind was a part of the body. I hope you get over your affliction whatever is may be.

  20. You were addicted to pot Mrs Kaftan? I mean Nancy. haha that is hilarious. And thank you but my "affliction" as you call it is very permanant.

  21. The Great Falls tribune article stated "Formal charges are pending in District Court.'

    So, unless formal charges were brought against them today, I was not aware they were charged.

    And I am not advocating or defending them. I just think the accusations that they are selling to children is ridiculous. No proof has come out they have committed that crime.

    I do think that if they did do what is alleged, than they should be punished, and I hate to see the actions of a few ruin it for all, especially since medical marijuana does a lot for so many people.

  22. nancy, the whole structure of your argument is flawed, just like your thinking. eithier we admit we are addicted, or we deny it, and denial means your are adicted. Makes no sense to have a closed ended argument. But im sure you know that. Try to come up with something better.

    I dont think its fair to call pot users addicts. And had you ever really smoked weed, you would understand that.

    Anyway, see. this is the deal with medical marijuana. Some of us abide by the current law, but like everything else in life there is gonna be some fraudulent activity. There are people that can and will be busted for trying to exploit the system. So you still get to see people go to jail for it which should please you, but i can smoke in my bedroom on occasion and not go to jail. This event dosesnt speak of most card holders.

  23. Call the Jail. Felony Distribution of a dangerous Drug was the charge. More to come im sure. But that was the charge according to them. It is public information. Maybe the charge was dropped. Im not sure.

    Good call Ax. All of it.

  24. I love this blog.

    It doesn’t matter what crazy story is posted here or how bizarre and out in way left field it is there will be people giving support for what normal people would see as appalling. Whether it is people working with juveniles selling drugs, murders wanting to build a memorial to themselves at ground zero, or wackos wanting to teach kids about butt sex in second grade you people will rise to the defense.

  25. I don't believe I'm calling anyone an addict, abuse and denial of any substance can be signs of addiction but really the only one that has a right to make that call is the one using. Yes my experience is with pot, and in my experience it was highly addictive, and to say its not, is to have the argument that no one can become addicted. For the poor sole that can't go have a couple of beers, and not want to continue beyond reason or to give up everything to drink, my heart goes out to them. Pot is exactly the same way, it didn't influence me that way, but I sure had family and friends that gave up a lot to smoke it on a continual basis. Free pot is offered all the time, and by all ages. Leave Mrs. Caftan out of this discussion, I don't know her, and my opinions I'm sure do not reflect hers. Yes retro, your home smells like pot, so does your clothes, and if your not smoking in your car good job. Your choice. I hope we can rethink this massive legalization of pot, it is harming my family and my friends.

  26. Nancy you said "Free pot is offered all the time, and by all ages." What are you talking about? I think you must be on something yourself. Where is this free pot? I would love to know. Because medication isnt cheap. Thats like saying free money is offered all the time and by all ages. Marijuana is not free. Wish it was. Its not even free to grow marijuana. You do not know what your talking about.

  27. Why not decriminalize pot. Let a person grow it for strictly their own use, and make penalties for selling it harsher. Get the goverment out of it. State, Federal, or Local, there isn't enough common sense left among our elected officials to handle a problem like this. You take the profit out of it and the real problem will go away. If you want to grow your own and set at home and smoke, go for it. We are giving away our freedoms everytime we let our elected idiots try and make decisions for us.

  28. If they were charged or not who cares,the only ones that are convicting them are a few on this blog.My at a well known hospital in Denver and he referred me to medical marijuana.He also works with very sick children,maybe you think he should have his liscense revoked because he advocates M.M.?This Dr.does a variety of articles in medical magazines across the world.He doesn't just toss out of a bus window.But since he also works with kids i suppose its a conflict of interest so lets fire the drug dealing son of a #@$%#@.

  29. I read they sold to an undercover agent that did have his card but wasn't signed up with them as a patient. He had a card, so i don't see what the big deal is. The legislature should change the law so people can get their mm from ANY licensed caregiver that way we wont have to waste our time and money talking about and prosecuting victimless crimes such as these. This was definitely one of the most boring front page articles i have ever read. the only reason it is even in the news is because it is about mm and these people work for the state. WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY.

  30. decon:

    you confuse aa with your "recovery industry"...
    the aa fellowship has no interest in your controversies.
    the sole function of aa members is to help themselves and others interested in a life of sobriety. the fellowship is free.

  31. I agree Farmer, a caregiver selling to any patient shouldnt be a problem. The problem is they were selling him 4 ounces at a time when its only legal for him to have one ounce at any givin time. Unless he himself had four cards, but it would still fall in a grey area of the law.

  32. Johnson-

    I think you may be a little confused by the constant deceptive practices of your faith "fellowship"

    It is about money, to the point that corporate AA pressed criminal charges against people (which led to incarceration) for giving away their literature.

    Here are copies of the court transcripts.

  33. Decon you have attempted to turn every single post on this blog into a platform to sspit your hatred of AA. Your post about AA isn't even relevant to this post. After all these months reading this blog WE ALL KNOW YOUR DAMN OPINION OF AA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    You spittle out the same old same old every single comment. Same verbs, same adjectives, same exact sentences and paragraphs even


    WE GET IT!



  34. Legalize it for all adults. Regulate and tax it like alcohol and cigarettes.Ummm...maybe next year?

  35. decon:

    promise not to rat me off?

    i've given aa lit away TO THOSE WHO ASKED for about thirty years.

    sometimes people with an excessive emotional response to aa have an issue they need to examine.

  36. Johnson-

    Good for you. I imagine the sister religions of the AA faith, such as the LDS and Jehovahs Witness faiths, would also appreciate it if you would hand out their messages also.

    If you want to discuss this further come on over to stinkin thinkin.

  37. decon:

    thanks for the site rec.

    you must be an all-star at stinkin thinkin...
    they are certainly the biggies of bicker-smithing about aa.

    if you have no issues with booze and drugs, why would any of it matter?
    generally, those who have an axe to grind in that direction got an invitation to their first meeting by a court or a fed-up family member.
    if it doesn't work for folks, they can walk away.
    they can walk away if it does work for them.

    not drinking is not the end of the destruction caused by alcoholism or long-term chronic use.
    daily effort to overcome the damage done to one's own life and the lives of loved ones is called recovery. it tends to be incremental rather than a sudden cure.
    many people can stop drinking tomorrow. they may not be able to stay stopped. and they may not have a clue about how the drinking/drugging altered themselves and their ability to function well in life.

    if none of this applies to you, great.
    might be time to find some new hobbies.

  38. It matters because your faith, and the 17 billion dollar industry capitalizing on it continues to kill people by promoting misinformation and disinformation proclaiming it to be medical fact.

    It is unfortunate that the medical community gives this faith any credibility at all.

    It deserves none.

  39. the $17 bil you refer to must be what is paid to treatment programs, many of which if not most are owned by hospital corps-rats that have spent billions to keep you from getting not-for-profit medicine. instead the average family is "taxed" $14k per year if they are fortunate enough to never hit the hospital.
    the texass corpse-rat that owned the treatment center here shut it down BECAUSE THEY COULDN"T MAKE ENOUGH MONEY.
    i have no idea what "faith" means.
    aa does not advocate or oppose "medicine" of any kind. neither does aa make promises.
    you may have the secret. for everyone. in which case you might want to touch base with the texass corpse-rat and score yourself an exec slot.
    everybody is waiting for the cure.

  40. This comment has been removed by the author.

  41. "Everybody is waiting for a cure?"

    There isn't going to be one because it is not a "disease", it is a behavior. The faulty disease model of addiction has no real scientific credibility

    The 17 billion dollar recovery industry cartel, with the full approval and assistance of corporate AA (AAWS and the GSO) infitrates every segment from society. This includes their weekly informercial such as A&E Intervention and TLC Addicted, to adding their made up words (such as codependent, enabling, and the prostitution of the Freudian definition of "denial")

    Due to the fact the faith recieves so much unearned admiration and indeserved credibility, people do not question this organization.

    They should. This is very evident when people are forced and coerced to this faith by threat of incarceration, threat of child custody termination, employment termination, and refusal of organ transplants.

    This may be more palatable if the AA faith did not have a 95% failure rate ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN NUMBERS.

  42. decon:

    put your obsession to good use and notify the ama, the researchers at yale medical school, the national institute of health, the center for disease control...
    all those poor folk are, by your standard, fatally deluded.
    so you could do two good things for yourself...
    score the exec position mentioned before and get some national dim-wits clued in to the facts.

    given the dollars spent on the medical industry, their success rate is even more shocking than your suggestion about aa.

    aa has no interest/investment in court rulings handed down in the interest of the community or any given family, or an individual.

    if you spent a portion of your obsessing reading the legal records, reviewing the struggles of individuals, families and communities courtesy or the "cartel" on the other side(they get much bigger money from the feds and your neighborhood),say, this bud's for you, there could be the miracle of clarity shined on the issue for you.' you might be less likely to bleed at the heart for those "incarcerated" for their repeated insane behavior that becomes evident only in the company of alcohol and other brain damaging chemicals.

    as for the tax breaks granted the organization, chump change.
    on of the very richest farmers in hill county is cut a check every year for half a mil.that would be YOUR half mil. and you don't even know about it.
    part of the farming cartel i guess...
    the largest welfare recipient of fed dollars in the state runs it's cars right down the tracks in booty-full downtown hay-vree (they could doubtless use your advice as the issue at hand is one of their largest medical expenses).
    but, i digress...
    there are some REAL cartels out there with keys to the u s treasury and some of them have just scored big on you and yourn.

    over one hundred montanans died last year because of alcohol related accidents. many of the people responsible had other previous social and economic disasters as a result of their unrecognized_____ (you fill in the blank).

    denial is the basis of many social problems, hardly the domain of aa.
    you and your neighbors are in denial about you own country and the bizarre actions of our government over history.
    convicted criminals are always in denial when it is court time and sadly they sucker others into the same state.

    refine your program and sell it.
    there are folks everywhere only too eager to buy it. you might even be able to become your own cartel.

    meantime, i'm happy to tell anyone who thinks they need help how i climbed out of a shot glass and a coke tooter.

  43. Of course you must be aware that the AA faith continues to prostitute the word "denial" from its orginal meaning. (In actuality it is very rare, although steptards like to somehow use it as a trump card.)

    You suggestions seem to fill a void as you fail to answer questions and charges about your faith. Your AA faith kills, and it would be somewhat palatable if it was successful. It is not.

    Nor are the evangelists for the AA faith anyone should ever listen to that is struggling with an addiction.

    You mention several entities that have signed on to the faulty disease model of addiction.

    You conveniently fail to mention that these entities were lobbied long and hard by the AA faith for the concocted "disease" to be declared. (google Marty Mann)

    You conveniently fail to mention that US Supreme Court has specifically ruled "alcoholism" to be "willful misconduct" rather than a "disease" (Turnage v Traynor)

    You conveniently fail to mention that the American Psychological Association did not sign on to the disease model, and the word "alcoholism", nor "alcoholics anonymous" appear anywhere in the DSM-IV.

    You conveniently fail to mention that the Hughes Act of 1970, named after Sen Harold Hughes (R & D both! Iowa), a self proclaimed member of the AA faith, pushed the bill and the disease declaration so that health insurance would be forced to pay for "treatment" (forced and coerced participation and conversion to the AA faith)

    You conveniently fail to mention that the AMA's official postion (as reported in JAMA) is that AA has "no scientific merit or interest"

    You fail to mention that the disease model is one of the very few successful legal defenses used by persons accused of vehicular manslaughter.

    Here are some questions everyone should have about the faulty disease model of addiction.

    Yes this irresponsible designation kills people.

    Somehow a farmer getting a check seems to be stressed, as a diversion tactic. It is a common ploy of members of the AA faith, as they fail to answer real questions, usually using a incoherent slogan as a trump card.

  44. DeCon – Enough with all this AA crapola. Every post you make you tie to the AA faith and you have done so every day for nearly a year now

    Have you ever considered filing for a mental disability retirement? It is obvious to everyone that you are completely blind to the fact you are an idiot.

  45. Just ignore it people. The more you post the more he will post back. We all dont have to reply to every single comment made, unless all you want to do is bicker back and forth incoherently. Wait...never mind.