Wednesday, May 26, 2010

Havre Professors "Forced" to Endure Prayer / Called ACLU

It really gives me that warm fuzzy feeling just knowing that the ACLU is protecting little old me from those naughty preachers that would dare “Proselytize” at a MSU-Northern graduation. The newspaper article in the Great Falls Tribune said that “several” local professors contacted the ACLU after the May graduation ceremonies to complain that they were required to attend the ceremony where evangelical Christians got to pray. Professor Janet Trethewey, wife to House District 33 candidate Jack Tretheway and Havre city council woman, was “shocked”. Professor John Snider hates being “forced” to listen to a prayer at graduation. Good Grief. Are we actually paying these half-wits with our tax dollars?

This story is just so asinine words escape me. Read it yourself on the Tribune @  or on the Havre Daily “News”@

It’s been a few years since I was in college but what used to “shock” me was the amount of liberal nonsense I was “forced” to listen to that was spouted off by these pinko instructors I was paying with my tuition dollars earned by myself working two jobs. And no, I wasn’t taking political science but rather reading, writing, and arithmetic, not courses where you would expect the professor to be preaching a liberal political opinion. Why is it that spouting liberal slanted political BS to impressionable young minds is ok but it is not ok to hear 5 minutes of some poor preacher’s prayer by our highly refined academia of our local university that claim to be accepting of all views?

It is time the taxpayers take back control.



  2. Thank God we have the Tretheweys out there to protect us all from that horrible public invocation. What would we do without them? I can't wait until Mr. Trethewey is elected and is drawing a paycheck from the city while he is in Helena, not fighting fires.

  3. When you are elected to the State Legislature you go on a leave of absence from the city and the insurance is paid by the state while you are in session. You really should check out things before you make false allegations.Yep,you guys are a kick.

  4. If these administration guys at Northern actually apologize to these tax funded dumb shits that called the ACLU we should quite going to bat for them everytime they threaten to cut one of their programs like we have always done in the past.

    How much time has everyone in town spent sticking up for and protecting our beloved Northern? And for what? This?

  5. Too bad they don’t stop idiots from giving campaign speeches at events like the graduation. That bunch of lies and distortions was way more offensive than the prayer

  6. This is the perfect example of liberal intolerance!!! Where on Earth do these people come from? When I was in college listening to my so-called "learned" professors spew their anti-Republican, anti-military rhetoric, I chose NOT TO LISTEN!!!! I did not complain or call the ACLU (although I am not sure they would have done anything anyway because I am on the other side!)I exercised my right to free speech as well and call the idiots out! Have some respect for the rest of us! I find it interesting that during the marijuana debates at City Hall, Janet often referred to the majority having spoken with their votes for legalization of medical marijuana. Well wake up Janet, a large majority of folks in our area will disagree with you! Oh and thanks for helping me make up my mind in the election, Jack can stay home and play with his hose as opposed to the firehouse in Helena!!! Out of Touch, Shame on You!

  7. agreed Hot Rod! I'll take all those dollars back.
    This country was founded on freedom of speech and freedom of religion. There is no state religion - That was the purpose of separation of state and religion. The reason the pilgrims left England was to escape state religion and practice their faith the way they saw fit. This country was founded by religous people that believed in God. They did not want a specific religion forced on people. When a prayer is said you can picture your God any way you want- even nonexistant if you so believe.

    I guess we can't say the pledge of allegiance in any govt owned building either- under God. Somebody call the ACLU.

  8. I would bet one of my "In God we Trust" dollars that former Professor Bill Thackery is somehow mixed up in this garbage

    It is the same kind of stink he made about warburton and her stance on abortion

    I am sending her a campaign donation to who ever is running against Jack. Anyone know who and where to send that?

  9. The PATRIOTS at the ACLU are fighting for every Americans rights. Those of us who choose not to believe the folklore, magic, and superstition should not be forced to this madness.

    Although people may disagree with these complaints, one should remember that American society needs these people.

    It should never be forgotten that Larry Flynt has done more for freedom of speech in this country than ANY other living person, including taking a bullet for every persons right to free speech.

    People, particularly around here think that the second amendment is the only one that is important and must not be infringed on.

    I for one am thankful these individuals made the complaint, and the ACLU got on the wagon.

    They are PATRIOTS

  10. "I am sending her a campaign donation to who ever is running against Jack. Anyone know who and where to send that?"

    That would be Kris Hansen.

  11. Apparently, lil' bill, you forgot this.

  12. I went to a private religious affiliated college and heard liberal talk as well. I also heard religious talk. Neither offended me.

    However, I do agree that at a state ran and funded school, they should be more aware of what they are doing.

    The high school students can attend a baccalaureate at St. Jude's if they want prayer. At my college graduation many of the churches in the town I lived in offered prayer for the students because it was not done at the graduation.

    There are many people who are not religious and there are many that are. The Pastor could have offered an earlier service prior to graduation to pray for the graduates. It would have been much more fitting.

    We would not like it if a professor who practiced Islam or Buddhism stood up at Northern and prayed over the students, but because we are a Christian nation, having a Christian pastor pray is okay?

  13. I'd be curious to see the reaction of the powers that be here at the HDC if a Muslim prayer had been recited. I'm guessing we'd have a different reaction.

    As to the ACLU, only the truly uninformed rail on them for their actions. I don't always agree, personally, with the stances they take but I can certainly understand WHY they do what they do.

    It's, obviously, a lot easier to simply rant and rave and complain about someone/something (in this case the ACLU), rather than objectively examining their purpose and history and affect on this country as a whole.

  14. Personally if I lived in a nation where 70-90% of the people were muslim or buddist I would keep my mouth shut about hearing one of their prayers

    Since we are a christian nation the minority should be tolerant of the majority. Why do a couple of anti-america people have to cause trouble for everyone?

    I notice the professors didn't complain about cashing my tax check they earned in this christian nation.

    I am not going to vote for good old Jack because he has the same intolerant views. Why would we want him in Helena with views that are prejudice to the majority of people?

  15. Superman said: "Since we are a christian nation the minority should be tolerant of the majority."

    It isn't often that two ignorant statements are included in one short sentence but there you have it.

    Your ignorance of the history of the founders is appalling and since when do the minority have to be tolerant of the majority in America?

  16. WE DON'T WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH YOUR CRAZY ASS RELIGION!! You are all welcome to believe in made up stories if you like, but please....PLEASE...stop trying to push your craziness on the rest of us. SurelyJest has a great point, had it been Muslim or Buddist, HDCorrector would of been calling the ACLU, or at the very least ranting here on his site. And I have to say I am soooooo tired of hearing about the founding fathers. #1. They are DEAD.
    #2. They were racist, sexist, white men, why are we worshiping them? The founding fathers had no idea what the world would be like in 2010. So we can appreciate what they did, but to aspire to go "back" to their ideas of how the USA should work is a little crazy IMHO. Dandelion...well said!!

  17. Surely; is right on the money there. Maybe ignorence is the problem. " the minority should be tolorant of the majority" So with that ideal then you must feel there should still be slavory? Or better yet sense superman is more then likely white. Maybe the 13 colonies should not have wanted better treatment and there voices heard. I asure you in 1775 England was the majority, not the tiny colonies that has now become our nation.
    Oh and Daily Corrector and the rest of the right-wing. I bet the founding fathers wanted there civil libirty's protected too, which is exactly what the ACLU does. Do I think a prayer at grad warrented a call to them...NO But you guy's are just as stupid as the so called PINKO'S

  18. To everyone that thinks we shouldn't be forced to hear a prayer I agree you should have the freedom to have your opinion even if I don't like it.

    I also have the freedom to send a campaign contribution to Trethewey's opponent in the House District 33 race (Kris Hansen)so I don't have to endure another godless person making legislation that I do not agree with.

    $160 is the max you can legally send in this race per person.

    I sent mine now will you?

  19. @ Ratattacker and fishneedbikes

    I am sending her a campaign donation to who ever is running against Jack. Anyone know who and where to send that?

    Umhn Hansen is not running against him in the primary she is the unopposed Republican, Phillip Defelice is running agaist Tretheway, I got an orange postcard from the NRA endorsing Defelice in the primary.

  20. You will need to vote in the Democrat Primary if you want to vote for COUNTY ATTORNEY, as there will be no Republican challenger, so who ever wins the Democrat primary will win the general election unopposed. Show Tretheways your displeasure by voting for Defelice in the HD33 Democrat primary.

  21. I have always wondered about people throwing money ar religious causes, while simulaneously complaining loudly about government "wasting" money on health care and education.

    Unlike the relgious gods that are coerced and imposed on people in American society. Health care and education are REAL.

  22. "Since we are a christian nation the minority should be tolerant of the majority. Why do a couple of anti-america people have to cause trouble for everyone?"

    Wow. I thought that since we were the United States that laws were in place to protect the minority from the majority.

    And when did the people who complained to the ACLU say they were anti-american? Or when has anyone in this blog said anyone was anti-american. I think it is very American of the ACLU to step in and protect people who's rights have been violated.

    I feel there should be a separation of church and state, including in our public ran facilities. And that obviously many people were made uncomfortable by what happened or ACLU would not be involved.

    I am for the right of people to celebrate their religions. But I also do not think the government should force religion on people in state run facilities. There were more appropriate routes that Northern could have taken if they wanted prayer in their graduation.

  23. Ok, I can take everyonbe not agreeing with me and that is alright too

    I am wondering about fighting over an issue like this when MSU-N has so many other problems. Declining enrollment, lack of services, etc. The big brother University is always trying to either close us or decrease what is offered. I just heard on the radio on my way back from lunch that there is even some question about losing a portion of the plumbing program.

    Was this the best cause these professors came lend their assistance to? Seems like they have missed the mark here and they should be worried about even keeping their jobs if a downsizing were to come their way

  24. The statement "The high school students can attend a baccalaureate at St. Jude's if they want prayer." is incorrect and misleading.

    The last time I attended Baccalaureate it was in the Havre High School Auditorium. The presenters were from different religious backgrounds, the msg was to encourage the students to find their higher power and to make good decisions; several of the presenters referred to the Bible as book to be used for reference in life situations or life reflections. Each church in this community salutes the graduates in their own way. Please don't make assumptions about any single church.

    I agree with the posts in reference to our reaction if the prayer had been a Muslim prayer.
    Maybe these Professors have hit a brick wall in dealing with the MSUN administration. Maybe they did not feel any dialog in regards to their point of view would have been heard; look how bloggers have reacted; can you imagine if you had a contradicting point of view to your boss. It most certainly would have been looked upon as being a "trouble maker". However, it is unfortunate that certain professors feel that they are being "forced" to attend graduation, this is time of celebration! These professors should check their attitude!

    I am a christian and I don't like to hear someome preaching to me, spiritual beliefs & reflections should be private.

  25. "But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." -Thomas Jefferson

    Quite simply people need to get over it. I'm pretty sick of this new attitude in America. If one person is offended then we are required to change our ways and stop what we are doing. Unless something is harming your persons, property, or violating your rights, you should stop whining and realize it does you no harm for people to have a separate point of view.

  26. This whole ACLU thing is plain petty. I attended graduation and it was just a normal Christian message. The time allotted for this was like one mili-second of the whole graduation. Personally I can’t stand the noise that came from the native drummers but I listened because they are part of our community. I absolutely detest that big lying deceitful Governor you all adore and I was shocked that I was forced to listen to one of his pitiful campaign speeches just because I wanted to see a loved one graduate.

    Move on to another subject to be shocked about

  27. Lois-

    The code word of "higher power" is a tagline used by the AA faith, in their attempt at concealing the fact that they are a fundamentalist, evangelical religion.

    Those of us that decide not to believe or participate in the folklore and superstition of religion do not appreciate having this mythology and these stories forced, imposed, and coerced upon society.

    Keep religion in the church, not at the forefront, gleefully imposed upon people using the power and authority of the goverment.

  28. Those of us that decide to believe or participate in Christianity should not have to put up with the folklore and superstition of an atheists religion or anti AA doctrine and do not appreciate having this mythology and these stories forced, imposed, and coerced upon society

    But I guess thats different

  29. I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given to me -- the task of testifying to the gospel of God's grace.
    — Acts 20:24
    It's your choice to read this or not.Just like if you don't want to listen to a 1 minute prayer,put your fingers in your ears.Sorry Jack your loud,petty wife just swayed my vote.

  30. What some of ou guys dont get it (shocking) that those of us not subscribing to your goof book that seems to give you thumpers a reason to judge your fellow man...are not saying don't continue with your fallacies and worshiping of your God. But on what planet do you think you can use a College Graduation to ask the rest of us to bow our heads and pray? IT IS NO DIFFERENT THAN SOMEONE ASKING YOU TO PRAISE ALLA. You would be pissed...admit it. Suzy Q...can you site some examples of Brians alleged lies and I am also curious about the atheists religion...what is it? Ummm...this should be interesting. Oh and that noise you were talking about comes from the Native CULTURE (which in case you didn't know is REAL)

  31. SuzyQ amazingly said: Those of us that decide to believe or participate in Christianity should not have to put up with the folklore and superstition of an atheists religion or anti AA doctrine and do not appreciate having this mythology and these stories forced, imposed, and coerced upon society

    Wow. 1st - You might want to look into what an Atheist is.

    2nd - The issue here isn't what one believes or doesn't believe so please stop trying to divert from what the actual issue is. The question is whether a religious prayer/ceremony/etc at an govt. funded institution is proper.

    3rd - If you don't like the speaker at these functions contact the proper authorities and let your voice be heard. Or you can whine on a blog while exposing your own political bias for all to see.

    And: "But I guess thats different"

    Can you say apples and oranges? LOL

  32. I love how points are always made using the Muslim Religion. Very classy

  33. When In Rome Do As The Romans Do.

  34. Aaron, please clarify your last statement. What does being classy have to do with this conversation?

    Why do we label one another?

    Personal beliefs such as witchcraft, bill w, jesus, alla, droids - whatever -- it's all private - s/b kept that way and not shared with an audience that is gathered for a public school graduation. That is why the ACLU exists.

    BTW - We all know what happened to the Romans.......

  35. I have not read all the comments here but enough I think to say I get it.

    I am sorry kids but I got side with the ACLU on this one. And of course all conservatives MUST fight ANY and all actions by the ACLU--regardless of what it is. And following this policy is as insane as some of the extreme left cases that the ACLU takes on.

    One poster previously wrote:
    "However, I do agree that at a state ran and funded school, they should be more aware of what they are doing."

    I agree 100%. Had the good pastor slipped in a "God" here or there, I seriously doubt we would be talking about this. However, his use of the name Christ several times is not appropriate at a state-ran affair. (And for the record, I am a practicing Christian.)

    As for some professor making liberal comments, I can't comment on that because I am not sure what exactly they were or how they were espoused. If they were wrong as the HDC blogger suggests, well, two wrongs don't make a right. (or should I say two lefts don't make a right....I have no idea what that means)

    Is it just me or is anyone else really sick of conservatives vs. liberals in this country? Wtih 10 million issues out there, I have a hard time believing we can narrow them to two parties....


  36. I consider myself to be conservative; but still believe that that ACLU is one of those necessary "evils". You said it Stephen there is a difference between invoking Christ & GOD.

    I like your ending, so I am going to copy it!


  37. I took classes from Bill Thackeray, it was part of what I believe taught me to be tolerant and to be an observer of another's beliefs. Although we probably would disagree on many issues, he taught me to open my mind and listen. It really comes down to respect for each other. I don't necessarily appreciate listening to Indian Drums, but I am tolerant and respectful of their desire to be heard, and realize the importance it must play in some of those attending. We live in obviously a highly Christian community, and my faith is extremely comforting to me, but I don't necessarily believe that the person next to me needs to appreiciate the prayers like I would, I would ask that he she use some common sense and realize that probably over 90 % of the people attending graduation got a good feeling from that. We need to be TOLERANT. It is the ugly part of our nation anymore that people don't choose to be kind. I just listened to someone lumping all republicans the other day into a pit of hell, and I wondered why he was so intolerant, although I consider myself an independent I would not ever say all democrats were " something " in a derogatory manner. MSU Northern is a public University and it's instructors should be glad to attend the sucesses of their works, and if they choose to rock on their nuts while the prayer is going on, so be it, just don't deny the majority of people who pay their salaries the right to hear a prayer meant in a good light. My goodness with so much sadness in the world some kind words are a good thing. Tolerance People TOLERANCE!

  38. Nancy - Tolerance is a wonderful thing and you raise some valid points/observations. However, this is different in that it involves an entity that receives Govt. funding.

  39. Good points Nancy I do believe you have the best thought out response on here

    Surely I would like to mention that those government funds were my funds before I sent them to the government. Where are my rights?

  40. I love to listen to all you "practicing Christians" who feel their feelings are being imposed upon by anyone that doesn't agree with you. Jesus must be rolling over in his tomb or whatever..Yep,you guys are a kick.

  41. Jimbo said:"Surely I would like to mention that those government funds were my funds before I sent them to the government. Where are my rights?"



  43. Bill--I am assuming, that you are referring to me since I was the one who labeled myself a "practicing Christian." As a practicing Christian I don't believe Christ is in a tomb at all but rather that he ascended to heaven after his resurrection. (Sorry for the lesson kids, but I have been called out by Bill and must respond). So it certainly was not my "feelings" that were offended, as you claim. In fact I was not there.

    And yes MSUN is funded by money from you and me, as well as many other Montanans, some of whom do not share my belief or that of the good pastor. So out of respect for those who do not share that belief, it should be kept out of state-run ceremonies. As much I teach my kids that Christianity is the way to go, I don't want it being the "Official Religon of the state of Montana."

    As for tolerating another religon, I agree that we sometimes can go too far in the church and separation debate AND the ACLU has chosen some very poor cases over the years, thus damaging their credibility with many people. I also think this is a minor thing that MSUN will correct in the future, and will be forgiven and forgotten soon.

    And to repeat an earlier post, had the good pastor refrained from using "Christ" and threw in a God here or there, we would not be talking about this. We are actually more tolerant as a nation than many people want to admit. (The "one nation under God" line isn't leaving anytime soon (nor should it.)

    To those who think it's okay to assume everyone believes as they do, I would ask you to remember why many people came to this country 250 years ago--to escape religious persecution. So whenever possible let's be careful about how we pray at our state-run ceremonies.

    Finally Bill, you too are a real kick.


  44. aaron is right on the money. Every time some one thinks they could be offended they are. THe government is not to be scolded every time some thin skinned moron objects. THis country was not founded by whiny school children, they just did not want a state run religion.