Friday, January 1, 2010


The police were out in full force last night keeping an eye on the revilers ringing in the New Year. Upon driving around downtown mid-evening last night I noticed 3 separate vehicles pulled over in about a 40 minute time frame. I also noticed that all three vehicles were not of the “brand new” vintage but didn’t give it much thought at the time.

While I appreciate the fact that police were watching out for drunk drivers I have heard reports that some officers may have been a little over zealous in their duties. This morning I was told that a person was pulled over and the first thing the officer asked the driver when he approached the window was if the driver had been drinking. The driver reported to me this morning that he honestly didn’t know why he was pulled over as he wasn’t speeding and hadn’t broken any laws that he was aware of. When he asked the officer why he had been pulled over the officer told him that the visibility of his license was obstructed from view and he was stopped because the officer was checking his vehicle. I wonder then why Havre’s patrolmen don’t then make sure their own patrol car license plates aren’t likewise cleaned if that is a justifiable cause to make a traffic stop? It would seem reasonable to assume that at least one patrolman was reaching beyond what he is empowered to do by State law on last night’s rounds.

Did anyone else have a similar experience last night?


  1. They profile poor people with old cars. Poor people all drink and drive you know

  2. I went out to Murphys for a bit on New Years Eve and what I found odd was during the couple hours I was there I saw the cops circle in the parking lot twice. What reason would they have to come into a private lot except to look for cars that they could recognize to stop later to try and get them for drunk driving.

    Its like they are laying in wait for you. No wonder no one wants to go out and spend money in Havre

  3. Or getting stopped because they are on the make and they want to get closer for a look over

    Pathetic swine

  4. Hell I know a man that was stop because his plates where covered insnow and ticketed. My god its winter in Montana Sh-t gets covered with snow. But it sure is nice to see our good old boys in blue are on the job. Oh excuse me I think they are here I smell coffee and dounuts.

  5. DUI's are a huge moneymaker for everyone except the impaired driver.
    It all boils down to the fact that the US has been conned by the 12 step cult, into making anyone that has ever seen a beer commercial a terminally ill alcoholic.
    The misinformation and disinformation that is promoted, marketed, and prosylized by the 12step faith and the recovery industry, as medical fact, kills people.
    It is the worst health care failure ever in the United States.
    Alcoholism is a behavior! It is not a disease. It certainly is not a disease that requires religous conversion and voodoo rituals to overcome.
    It is simply an easy target for cities to make a lot of money.
    I have been pulled over at 2 in the morning many times, being the only one on first or fifth, with a stupid cop excuse (one taillight was brighter than the other WTF)
    Be on first street when the kids are out of school for lunch, you are taking your own life in your hands.

  6. Is it against the law to drink and drive? Yes. It is against the law to have an unlegible license plate? Yes. There are reasons for having a plate readable- stolen cars, swapped plates, etc. I would bet that 9 times out of 10, a person would get off with a warning for a dirty plate. It all depends on your attitude to the cop. You treat him/her like an ass and I am willing to bet you will get a ticket.

    Alcoholism is a disease. Try doing a little research and not post a personal belief. Have you ever seen a hard-core alcoholic go through withdrawls? If you would like I could show you a few sites. I would agree that religion should stay out of it. All alcoholics are doing is replacing one crutch with another. It does however, give them something to focus on besides the alcohol. I would imagine that many alcoholics have other conditions going on that cause the behavior, such as depression. That is what should be treated.

  7. P.S.

    I personally hope that every drunk driver gets pulled over. I would not want to be driving down the street and have myself or anyone get mowed down by a drunk-driver. Try explaining that to your kids-Mommy or Daddy was killed because the Havre PD didn't pull over the bad man/woman who was driving drunk. You can't have it both ways.

  8. Although having a covered plate is against the law how many traffic stops for this reason actually results in the determination the car has the wrong plates? Does the police officer check the Vehicle identification number on the frame to check the plate, registration and vehicle all agree? Do you really think law breakers really go out and cover their license plates with snow so they can joy ride? they only wait for snow storms- those pesky cops will never know...

    Pulling someone over for snow on their license plate in the middle of a snow storm is an abuse of power and the cop is just FISHING for something more.

  9. Last I thought Murphy's was in the county, city cops should not be patrolling I wrong?

  10. You have to consider the really young macho cop who can slap their elders with a big he-hah and show there great power by hauling them off to jail. Two beers will do it I think and you are in the crowbar hotel so it makes sense to look at the bar parking lots to see whos car has been there for a couple hours and then whammy you got them when you check there license plate

    and I think Murphys got annexed into the city so yet another porential 50-100 cars a night they can get.

  11. And by the way seriously

    If these cops are going to be this enthusiastic about stopping and nabbing drinking drivers, shouldn't they themselves quit going to the bars and hooting it up to the point where it is obvious they are well past there two beer limit? I even see a couple of them out to the bars with the bald Kojack guy that is on the council. I wonder if a council guy would get a drunk driving ticket after a few drinks with an off duty cop?

    I am going off to think about that one

  12. Simply put-If you do not give them a "reason" to pull you over, then you won't get pulled over. The law is what it is, right or wrong. If you don't like it, run for office and change it. Until then, there is not much you can do about it but complain. As far as the drunk driving goes, it's called a designated driver-use one.

    Sounds to me like people do not want to take responsibility for their actions and want to shift blame onto somone else.

  13. I can't believe the numbner of people thatspout out that you should run for office if you don't like something instead of posting complaints on here. What makes you think people posting here arent active in trying to make change? Don't see many of you all at council meetings, school board meetings, or waiting in line to meet with the county commisioners.

    This post was about unwarrented stops not about whether or not drunk driving was a problem. Drunks should be arrested but I would guess that most drivers newyears eve had not over done it. Didn't the blog say virtually no one was out that night?

    People with "power" again torturing those with none

  14. You're all way off base. There is no Montana statute for having a "dirty" plate. A cop has to have probable cause for pulling over a vehicle. They can't even look up a plate unless they have the vehicle pulled over for some other reason already.
    Here is a scenario-
    Let's say your out on a Sunday drive and get ran into by a drunken driver. He then decides to drive off because he doesn't want a DUI. First thing most people think of, "I need to get a licence plate number". But shoot, guess what, it is covered by snow. Guess what the cop is going to ask for, "Did you get a license plate number?"
    Havre is relatively small so they might be able to track it down by a description, but a bigger city you would be screwed.
    The laws don't just encompass our little city here, they are pretty much universal for the state. So stop thinking small scale and what just affects "me".

  15. I don't think the annexation is official yet.?

  16. To Anonymous:
    Yes I have seen severe alcoholics having withdrawels. I have experienced it personally first hand.
    No, alcoholism is NOT a disease, once again that is the shameless self promotion of the Alcoholics Anonymous faith, aka the state enforced religion of the United States.
    Do not believe the indoctrination and dogma that they try to promote as fact.
    The vast majority of everything in the Alcoholics Anonymous theology is in fact false, or a huge distortion of the truth.
    Unfortunately, failure to participate in this religion has left people in jail, has caused people to lose custody of children, has caused people to lose employment, and has denied some people of organ transplants.
    Alcoholics Anonymous is truly an evil organization, that statiscally does not help anyone, only kills them.
    I would suggest you do a little research yourself before parroting the religions dogmatic theology.

  17. "I would agree that religion should stay out of it. All alcoholics are doing is replacing one crutch with another. It does however, give them something to focus on besides the alcohol. I would imagine that many alcoholics have other conditions going on that cause the behavior, such as depression. That is what should be treated."

    What part of that is " parroting the religions dogmatic theology".
    The fact I call it a "disease"?

    To say AA is a sordid and evil organization is fine, but to say alcoholism is not a disease is a slap in the face to millions. You can argue that it is self-inflicted, and I would agree. But still a disease none-the-less. I took your advice and did some more reading. I learned much. I would encourage everyone who reads this to do the same.

    I realize this blog is a little off topic so I will stop posts.

  18. Anonymous

    The disease concept of addiction is an idea that Alcoholics Anonymous basically stole, like most of their dogma.
    It is by no means valid, and is incredibly irresponsible and deadly.
    Alcoholism is a behavior, and all behaviors are voluntary. The problem is that AA tries to sell itself, via many political and business fronts to be a credible organization. There is almost no credibilty to the organization, although it is a front for a 16 billion dollar recovery industry.
    Is it off topic? I think not. The health care industry itself states that alcohol related health issues cost 110 billion dollars every year.
    Many of these expenses come from the fact that selling the disease of alcoholism becomes a self fulfilling prophesy, particlarly for people without research capabilities.
    The truth is that the majority of people with serious alcohol problems quit on their own, or return to moderate use. To say otherwise is merely AA dogma and untrue.
    I dont have a problem with people participating in AA. They should be able to do that, as they should be able to practice any other religious faith in this country.
    I do have a problem when AA claims to be an authority on addiction, and use its tremendous political power, front groups, and shameless self promotion to change public policy, and promote religious dogma and indoctination as empirical medical fact.
    With the current health care crisis, and general financial cost of all of this, I think we all should be talking about this.

  19. Great discusion on this post although the post was directed more towards the police lying in wait of victims and not alcoholism.
    We appreciate everyones participation and wonder of some of you would like to do a guest blog about the AA and their treatment successes / failures? We would be happy to post it.

  20. I love that snow covered license plate photo you got there. That was a "gotcha"

    Practice what you preach guys

  21. Here is a scenario, your an officer, working on new years eve. you get a call from your dispatch and someone has reported stollen plates. The plates have been missing for a few weeks. The person who stole the plates is wanted for murder in another state. The officer pulls over a vehicle for it being dirty and not ligible. The person in that car is the suspect in a murder case. So, why is it such a horrible reason to pull someone over for this? Breaking the law is breaking the law. Its called a victimless crime. I dont care if its jay walking, if its against the law then dont do it.

  22. This comment has been removed by the author.

  23. This is great. I saw two MHP and one Havre PD car with covered plates in one week. This goes right along with the MHP and HCSO cars with cracked windshields.